building an item crafter character

[jkk]

I have read the guide and how-to, and also the one on GameFAQs by Offkorn. He did a very good job, but I can't keep e-mailing questions to a FAQster as it tends to annoy them.

While I do want to create a great crafter, I do not want to be totally handicapped in gameplay. The game benefits from a wide skillset. The Able Learner feat is pretty helpful that way. I am willing to completely blow off the ability to craft traps or brew potions; these don't interest me. I admit it. I just want to make all the really cool items.

Offkorn recommends Drow or Sun Elf and specifies an exact Wizard build up to L18. Here's a link. He recommends saving a couple of skill points at given levels, but I don't understand what that accomplishes, having a skill later rather than sooner.

I also don't know how many XP are in the game, assuming one is doing the side quests to get max XP (as I would plan to). So I don't know if a Drow, with a 2-level penalty, could reach L20. Not that L20 is absolutely necessary, but it would be kind of cool.

Another question is: what about the crafting items that require a clerical or druidic spell? A wizard cannot cast them even from scrolls, can he? One option I guess is to take a cleric level at some point. With Sun Elf or Drow, as Wizard is their favoured class, that wouldn't impose the XP cap penalty and would still allow the Neverwinter Nine prestige class if one was in the mood for that.

The other concern is locks and traps. Neeshka is the obvious solution, but I find her fragile and underpowered. In my latest game I solved it by playing the rogue myself. Locks can be Knocked, no problem; I guess one can always just trip the traps and heal up, but that seems like a pain. I've seen that Khelgar is an absolute essential: what a tank, especially with a well crafted dwarven waraxe and related fighter feats busting out huge crits. I basically laughed at the fire giants. Thus far the only thing that even fazed him was the red dragon. What do you do about traps if you don't have a rogue?

Just curious to get some thoughts.

[kgambit]

With all due respect to Jake, I don't like the drow crafter build for the simple reason that a LOT of the spells you need are clerical or druidical in nature.

The second reason is that the ECL rating of the drow means you will likely fall two levels short of the level 20 cap. My Aasimar paladin is likely going to cap at level 19 and i have done every quest. Sun elf would avoid the ECL penalty at least.

Taking a level of cleric won't solve your problem though. A single level of cleric would have a caster level of ONE when casting clerical spells. You do NOT add all spell caster levels to determine caster level. A mage 10 / cleric 10 would have a caster level of 10 for either spell class.

I also don't like diluting other skill categories just to pump up crafting skills but then with a paladin I could only afford points in three skills, and I would definitely recommend having a high diplomacy skill and a fairly high appraise skill for starters. I think Jake might delay some skill points for cross-class skill reasons but I'm not sure.

IIRC almost all of the caster NPCs (Elanee, sand, Qara, Zhjaeve and even Ammon Jerro) have very good alchemy skills so putting points in them isn't really necessary but a single point can be useful. (Will explain this later).

Sand and Khelgar make great armor and weapon crafters so that should be coveered in game terms.

As for traps, i usually have Neeshka along so she covers them for me - but otherwise have her pickpocket the Chime of opening from one of the merchants in the docks, use that to open the chests, and just take your chances with the traps. hehehe

Okay, let's go back to the skill points. With a headband of intellect +8, Grobnar's inspire confidence song (+4 to skills at level 11) and the gloves of the artificier bought from Nya in port LLast in chapter 3, you will end up with at least +14 to all your crafting skills - and that doesn't count your own intelligence score modifiers! So even with just a point or two in craft alchemy you will be able to distill every essence in the game (max skill is a 10) and even do the merges to upgrade (max skill 15). Aside from the daragon hide half plate, the next highest crafting skill needed is a 23 for admantine full plate or an adamantine exotic weapon. With 14 points in boosts, you're over half way there. 10 points each in craft armor and craft weapon will get you anything you need, and you can actually do almost all of the basic crafting yourself and let the spellcasters do the heavy enchanting.

I still prefer having the NPC's do the crafting and enchanting but it's not necessary to shove as many points as Jake suggests in as long as Grobnar is around.

[jkk]

Okay. So what is a good method to contend with the class issues? On the list of spells required I see druid-only and cleric-only spells. Yet you'd also have to have Craft Wondrous Item. I think you could farm out Craft Arms & Armour to NPCs, no problem, same with Alchemy.

Even if you ignore making traps and potions, and pass off the essence work and weapons/armour work to NPCs, is there a way to get to where you can cast all the spells necessary without having to also jack up Elanee/Zhjaeve with crafting feats? Because the caster must certainly have the relevant feat, or it's no go, if I understand the process correctly.

Man, this gets a little complicated. But that's probably realistic. It's making magic items. It probably ought not to be TOO simple.

[kgambit]

Originally Posted by jkk

Okay. So what is a good method to contend with the class issues? On the list of spells required I see druid-only and cleric-only spells. Yet you'd also have to have Craft Wondrous Item. I think you could farm out Craft Arms & Armour to NPCs, no problem, same with Alchemy.

Even if you ignore making traps and potions, and pass off the essence work and weapons/armour work to NPCs, is there a way to get to where you can cast all the spells necessary without having to also jack up Elanee/Zhjaeve with crafting feats? Because the caster must certainly have the relevant feat, or it's no go, if I understand the process correctly.

Man, this gets a little complicated. But that's probably realistic. It's making magic items. It probably ought not to be TOO simple.

Craft ALchemy can be farmed out - no question about that.
Craft Weapons and Craft ARmor - same thing. Farming it out is a good option.

Create Magical Arms and Armor - This is going to have to be shared between at least two casters because of the spell requirements.

Create Wondrous Items - Same issue as with the Create magical arms and armor - probably going to have to have at least two casters.

Edit: My preference would be to have both the cleric and druid and a mage/sorceror ALL have both feats. It's overkill for sure but if you check out the spell lists, it appears at first glance that a cleric and druid can do almost everything you need - but there are still a couple of items that I would want to be able to make that only a mage/sorceror can access the necessary spells.

It means you end up gimping a couple of npcs unfortunately. Unless you are willing to forgo making of certain items, that's the only solution that gives you ALL of the options.

[jkk]

Originally Posted by kgambit

Edit: My preference would be to have both the cleric and druid and a mage/sorceror ALL have both feats. It's overkill for sure but if you check out the spell lists, it appears at first glance that a cleric and druid can do almost everything you need - but there are still a couple of items that I would want to be able to make that only a mage/sorceror can access the necessary spells.

Yeah, I was hoping there was a way to do otherwise. And Sand can't hack it. He doesn't get Mage Armour. From a crafting standpoint, he's gutshot by virtue of being a specialist wizard.

Clearly, though, Jake's right about the Headband of Intellect. Combine that with Greater Heroism and Grobnar's Inspire Competence (if they stack) and INT-based crafts are a done deal.

I suppose I could just cheat the feats onto the characters in question, but I hate doing that. Just never been the type. I didn't mind cheating in another Belt of Ironfist because I'd already gotten it fair and square and it ended up on whatever plane lost Bag of Holding items go to.

One handy thing: I found that the alteration powder bag (an otherwise useless item after its relevant quest) made a great gem bag. Since they weigh nothing in game, and the bag looks unique, you always know which one it is and you need no weight reduction. I found out what it was by trying to put it in my designated 'packrat bag of old quest items I will probably never need but am not willing to just chuck', and it wouldn't go. Wondered why, got to looking at it.

[kgambit]

Originally Posted by jkk

Yeah, I was hoping there was a way to do otherwise. And Sand can't hack it. He doesn't get Mage Armour. From a crafting standpoint, he's gutshot by virtue of being a specialist wizard.

Clearly, though, Jake's right about the Headband of Intellect. Combine that with Greater Heroism and Grobnar's Inspire Competence (if they stack) and INT-based crafts are a done deal.

LOL Qara might make a decent replacement for sand if her spell selection wasn't so limited. She does get mage armor and can swap in melf's acid arrow which sand can't get, but the higher level spells are more problematic. Fortunately they overlap with the cleric and druid spells.

Unfortunately Sand is the only one who can cast keen edge unless you want to waste a third level spell lot on it for Qara - which I wouldn't recommend!

I always pictured magicians and sorcerors as being the most potent item creators, and yet in this crafting system, the clerics and druids rule. Something doesn't seem right about that to me.

I forgot about Greater Heroism. lol I'll have to check and see if that stacks.

[cal1s]

why that mate? a well placed prayer to rule them all ... lol

Originally Posted by kgambit

I always pictured magicians and sorcerors as being the most potent item creators, and yet in this crafting system, the clerics and druids rule. Something doesn't seem right about that to me.

[kgambit]

Originally Posted by cal1s

why that mate? a well placed prayer to rule them all ... lol

LOL

Maybe it's just an old stereotype .... I always pictured mages and sorcerors as the true item crafters. Being able to connect to the magic weave and fabricate items and channel power and bind it just seems more arcane than it does divine. Mostly. lol Items like the holy avenger, cjalice of lathander, etc. I always pictured as being "Divine gifts".

Golly! Could it be that Sauron was actually a monstrously powerful CLERIC who was tieing a mass dominate humanoid spell into the ring(s) on a previously unheard of scale?

[cal1s]

in fact sauron was indeed a semi-god afaik, just like gandalf....

Originally Posted by kgambit

LOL

Maybe it's just an old stereotype .... I always pictured mages and sorcerors as the true item crafters. Being able to connect to the magic weave and fabricate items and channel power and bind it just seems more arcane than it does divine. Mostly. lol Items like the holy avenger, cjalice of lathander, etc. I always pictured as being "Divine gifts".

Golly! Could it be that Sauron was actually a monstrously powerful CLERIC who was tieing a mass dominate humanoid spell into the ring(s) on a previously unheard of scale?

[kgambit]

Originally Posted by cal1s

in fact sauron was indeed a semi-god afaik, just like gandalf....

Well there you have it! lol It was a divinely inspired gift to himself!

I will bow to superior Knowledge of Tolkein.

In fact, if anyone has any questions on Tolkein - they should fire a pm to Attalus (a recent member and a good friend). His knowledge of all things Tolkein is amazing and VERY scary. LOL Personally, I think he may actually be an agent of the Dark Lord.